By the Numbers..Iraq

[TireHauler04]

Iraqi authorities Monday reported that 16,273 Iraqis — including 14,298 civilians, 1,348 police and 627 soldiers — died violent deaths in 2006. The total exceeds the Associated Press count by more than 2,500.

BTW thats only 33,727 less than when Saddam was in power.
Don't ya love it?:rolleyes:

[runamuk]

And still just less that 3000 U.S. troops have perished during this entire war.

Outstanding odds if I do say so myself!!

Rick

[TireHauler04]

should have been ZERO troops dead...but i guess we can't go back and say no to war now.

[Shovelhead]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/18714.htm
Halabja Casualties
5,000 civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly, died within hours of the attack. 10,000 more were blinded, maimed, disfigured, or otherwise severely and irreversibly debilitated.


Thousands died of horrific complications, debilitating diseases, and birth defects in the years after.
This was ONE poison gas attack by Saddam on his own people.
(you know,...those WMD that never existed)
How many out of the number you quoted were killed by their own Iraqi countrymen?

[capt.Ron]

Iraqi authorities Monday reported that 16,273 Iraqis — including 14,298 civilians, 1,348 police and 627 soldiers — died violent deaths in 2006. The total exceeds the Associated Press count by more than 2,500.

BTW thats only 33,727 less than when Saddam was in power.
Don't ya love it?:rolleyes:
As usual your numbers are skew for your own amusement.
Over 300,000 Iraqis were killed by the actions of Saddam.

[TireHauler04]

lol 300,000...the country didn't have that many people to start with man..c'mon quit spinning the truth.

Shovel:Since when was a "gassing" considered an attack of WMD's? For all the southerners here..read my lips, "there were NO WMD's in Iraq" ok understand?

[runamuk]

lol 300,000...the country didn't have that many people to start with man..c'mon quit spinning the truth.

Shovel:Since when was a "gassing" considered an attack of WMD's? For all the southerners here..read my lips, "there were NO WMD's in Iraq" ok understand?

Since the people that were killed were gassed to death!

Please do your homework before coming to class!!!:rolleyes:

Rick

[capt.Ron]

lol 300,000...the country didn't have that many people to start with man..c'mon quit spinning the truth.

You must be completely uneducated!
The capital of Iraq has a population of 7.4 million according to 2005 estimates.

The population of Iraq according to july 2006 estimates is 26,783,383.
Just in case you can't decipher numbers that big I'll help ya out.
That is 26 million, 783 thousand, 383 people living in Iraq.
I would be really ashamed if I was that dumb.
Now maybe you can grasp how difficult the job of controlling the violence over there is.
If you want documentation you can look here. (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/iz.html)

[Shovelhead]

Shovel:Since when was a "gassing" considered an attack of WMD's? For all the southerners here..read my lips, "there were NO WMD's in Iraq" ok understand?

Poison gas dispensing systems (Bombs, etc) ARE WMDs.
What would you consider a Weapon of Mass Destruction?

[TireHauler04]

WMD's that we need to worry about are the ones that really do mass destruction like a nuke or anything that has potential of reaching the USA from the middle east..gas bombs are nothing though they still kill many..they aren't MASS destruction weaponery by ANY means.

Runamuk..lol man none of your posts tonight made any sense man..are you ok?:p

[capt.Ron]

Runamuk..lol man none of your posts tonight made any sense man..are you ok?:p

Now that's funny!!
Kinda like claiming that Iraq doesn't have more than 300,000 people in the whole country!!
http://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gifhttp://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/hysterical.gif

[Shovelhead]

WMD's that we need to worry about are the ones that really do mass destruction like a nuke or anything that has potential of reaching the USA from the middle east..gas bombs are nothing though they still kill many..they aren't MASS destruction weaponery by ANY means.



I guess it depends on your definition........:rolleyes:
As for me, I kinda worry about some terrorist country having the ability to manufacture and deliver a chemical, or bio weapon to my neighborhood.

So in your mind, a "Dirty Bomb" that is designed to spread radiation over an area with a small explosion (killing the entire poulation in the process) is NOT a WMD? :confused:

weapon of mass destruction

noun
a weapon that kills or injures civilian as well as military personnel (nuclear and chemical and biological weapons)

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/weapon%20of%20mass%20destruction

[jet56]

...........what we have here is another Troll albeit an ignorant one at that who is undeserving of any further attention...........I still believe that he is a Reincarnation of BushSucks and I am beginning to wonder if RunAmuk has any NORMAL acquaintanceshttp://www.thetechlounge.com/forum/images/smilies/more_smilies/feedtroll.gif

[Oilguy]

WMD's that we need to worry about are the ones that really do mass destruction like a nuke or anything that has potential of reaching the USA from the middle east..gas bombs are nothing though they still kill many..they aren't MASS destruction weaponery by ANY means.

Runamuk..lol man none of your posts tonight made any sense man..are you ok?:p

So we should define WMD as bombs that can desroy 5 building? 10 building? With your definition it don't matter haw many people WILL die as a result of its release... it is the amount of energy the blast releases? Dude.. If a blackcat fire cracker attached to a poisen gas or chemical that will kill hundreds or thousands of people... Then it is a WMD... Even if it does not leave a mark of a building. If a gas can be released from an airplane and cause the death of a mass of people... That is a WMD.
5000 people is a lot of people... wouldn't you agree? 10000 is a lot more... right? Is killing them by poisening mass destruction?

[Shovelhead]

...........what we have here is another Troll albeit an ignorant one at that who is undeserving of any further attention...........I still believe that he is a Reincarnation of BushSucks and I am beginning to wonder if RunAmuk has any NORMAL acquaintanceshttp://www.thetechlounge.com/forum/images/smilies/more_smilies/feedtroll.gif

This site was designed for all (Republican, Democrat, Independant and troll) to voice their opinion.
If the doo-doo gets too deep, we will bring out the pooper-scooper and throw out the trash.
Name calling serves no real purpose.

[jet56]

...................designed for and should welcome all however, noting the mere existence of an Individual to be contrary and IGNORANT at that is no INSULT.... ........both are relative to a state of being and are not INSULTING especially when they both are so often and flagrantly ILLUSTRATED kind of like an old hound rollin' around in dead road kill.............................................. ....I have decried the event on several occasions when Members have been booted but for no other reason than Illustration of their Simple Mindedness being beneficial.............and there should be nothing wrong with noting their activities and seeking to ignore them......................................

[Leaping known]

Times of India, 16 September 2002: The repeated American propaganda weapon to rationalise the deaths of more than one million innocent Iraqis since 1991 through economic sanctions is that Saddam Hussein used poison gas against Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war and against Iraq’s own Kurdish citizens. The accusation is now being invoked to launch a full-scale American assault on Iraq. This claim of Iraq gassing its own citizens at Halabjah is suspect. First, both Iran and Iraq used chemical weapons against each other during their war. Second, at the termination of the Iran-Iraq war, professors Stephen Pelletiere and Leif Rosenberger, and Lt Colonel Douglas Johnson of the US Army War College (USAWC) undertook a study of the use of chemical weapons by Iran and Iraq in order to better understand battlefield chemical warfare. They concluded that it was Iran and not Iraq that killed the Kurds.
In the first report they wrote: “In September 1988 — a month after the war had ended...the state department abruptly, and in what many viewed as sensational manner, condemned Iraq for allegedly using chemical weapons against its Kurdish population...with the result that numerous Kurdish civilians were killed. The Iraqi government denied that any such gassing had occurred...Having looked at all the evidence that was available to us, we find it impossible to confirm the state department’s claim that gas was used in this instance. To begin with there were never any victims produced. International relief organisations who examined the Kurds — in Turkey where they had gone for asylum — failed to discover any. Nor were there any found inside Iraq. The claim rests solely on testimony of the Kurds who had crossed the border into Turkey, where they were interviewed by staffers of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.”

Regarding the Halabjah incident where Iraqi soldiers were reported to have gassed their own Kurdish citizens, the USAWC investigators observed: “It appears that in seeking to punish Iraq, Congress was influenced by another incident that occurred five months earlier in another Iraq-Kurdish city, Halabjah. In March 1988, the Kurds at Halabjah were bombarded with chemical weapons, producing many deaths. Photographs of the Kurdish victims were widely disseminated in the international media. Iraq was blamed for the Halabjah attack even though it was subsequently brought out that Iran too had used chemical weapons in this operation, and it seemed likely that it was the Iranian bombardment that had actually killed the Kurds.” [The Iranians thought the Kurds had fled Halabjah and that they were attacking occupying Iraqi forces. But the Iraqis had already vacated Halabjah and the Kurds had returned. Iran gassed the Kurds by accident]

In March 1991 as the massive US-led attack on Iraq ended, I was visiting the USAWC to give a lecture on South Asian security and discussed this problem with professor Pelletiere at lunch. I recall Pelletiere telling me that the USAWC investigation showed that in the Iranian mass human wave battlefield strategy, Teheran used non-persistent poison gas against Iraqi soldiers so as to be able to attack and advance into the areas vacated by Iraqis. On the other hand, Baghdad used persistent gas to halt the Iranian human wave attacks. There was a certain consistency to this pattern. However, in the Halabjah incident, the USAWC investigators discovered that the gas used that killed hundreds of Kurds was the non-persistent gas, the chemical weapon of choice of the Iranians. Note it was the Iranians who arrived at the scene first, who reported the incident to UN observers, and who took pictures of the gassed Kurdish civilians. However, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in August and the truth of the Halabjah incident became inconvenient.

I asked professor Pelletiere in March 1991, when he thought their findings would come out. I recall him telling me that it would probably take about five years after emotions over the Gulf war crisis died down. However, the USAWC report of 1990 has been dispatched into oblivion. The propaganda that Iraq gassed its own Kurdish civilians is cons-tantly invoked by the media. It was reactivated by president Clinton in December 1998 to justify the further bombing and destruction of Iraq.

Meanwhile, estimates of the number of innocents who have died in Iraq from relentless American-dictated UN sanctions range between 1-1.7 million, including more than half-a-million children. An article in The New England Journal of Medicine, assessed through a study of monthly and annual infant mortality rates in Iraq that “more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. UNICEF official Thomas Ekfal estimates that about 500,000 children have died in Iraq since the United Nations Security Council imposed economic sanctions on Baghdad.

If the US bombs Iraq, it is not the direct loss of Iraqi lives from “collateral damage” alone that will be the only tragedy, but the unseen and accelerated loss of lives of tens of thousands of more infants, the sick and the elderly from lack of medicine and other healthcare. Before the US bullies all countries into supporting its bombing of Iraq, major countries such as France, Germany, Russia, China, India and Indonesia should stand up in unison and say “no more [bombs]” to the sole superpower.

The author is the Allis Chalmers distinguished professor of International Affairs at Marquette University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Copyright Raju Thomas, Times of India 2002, For fair use only

[Oilguy]

Got to smile when I see LK swoop in and drop us a Copy and Pasted message...
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Holiday LK! Hows the Snow?

[runamuk]

...........what we have here is another Troll albeit an ignorant one at that who is undeserving of any further attention...........I still believe that he is a Reincarnation of BushSucks and I am beginning to wonder if RunAmuk has any NORMAL acquaintanceshttp://www.thetechlounge.com/forum/images/smilies/more_smilies/feedtroll.gif


This is California and he is one of the "Normal "ones:rolleyes: :D
And one heck of a guy at that! Not in the freakish league of BushSucks by any stretch of the imagination.

Times of India, 16 September 2002: The repeated American propaganda weapon to rationalise the deaths of more than one million innocent Iraqis since 1991 through economic sanctions is that Saddam Hussein used poison gas against Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war and against Iraq’s own Kurdish citizens. The accusation is now being invoked to launch a full-scale American assault on Iraq. This claim of Iraq gassing its own citizens at Halabjah is suspect. First, both Iran and Iraq used chemical weapons against each other during their war. Second, at the termination of the Iran-Iraq war, professors Stephen Pelletiere and Leif Rosenberger, and Lt Colonel Douglas Johnson of the US Army War College (USAWC) undertook a study of the use of chemical weapons by Iran and Iraq in order to better understand battlefield chemical warfare. They concluded that it was Iran and not Iraq that killed the Kurds.
In the first report they wrote: “In September 1988 — a month after the war had ended...the state department abruptly, and in what many viewed as sensational manner, condemned Iraq for allegedly using chemical weapons against its Kurdish population...with the result that numerous Kurdish civilians were killed. The Iraqi government denied that any such gassing had occurred...Having looked at all the evidence that was available to us, we find it impossible to confirm the state department’s claim that gas was used in this instance. To begin with there were never any victims produced. International relief organisations who examined the Kurds — in Turkey where they had gone for asylum — failed to discover any. Nor were there any found inside Iraq. The claim rests solely on testimony of the Kurds who had crossed the border into Turkey, where they were interviewed by staffers of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.”

Regarding the Halabjah incident where Iraqi soldiers were reported to have gassed their own Kurdish citizens, the USAWC investigators observed: “It appears that in seeking to punish Iraq, Congress was influenced by another incident that occurred five months earlier in another Iraq-Kurdish city, Halabjah. In March 1988, the Kurds at Halabjah were bombarded with chemical weapons, producing many deaths. Photographs of the Kurdish victims were widely disseminated in the international media. Iraq was blamed for the Halabjah attack even though it was subsequently brought out that Iran too had used chemical weapons in this operation, and it seemed likely that it was the Iranian bombardment that had actually killed the Kurds.” [The Iranians thought the Kurds had fled Halabjah and that they were attacking occupying Iraqi forces. But the Iraqis had already vacated Halabjah and the Kurds had returned. Iran gassed the Kurds by accident]

In March 1991 as the massive US-led attack on Iraq ended, I was visiting the USAWC to give a lecture on South Asian security and discussed this problem with professor Pelletiere at lunch. I recall Pelletiere telling me that the USAWC investigation showed that in the Iranian mass human wave battlefield strategy, Teheran used non-persistent poison gas against Iraqi soldiers so as to be able to attack and advance into the areas vacated by Iraqis. On the other hand, Baghdad used persistent gas to halt the Iranian human wave attacks. There was a certain consistency to this pattern. However, in the Halabjah incident, the USAWC investigators discovered that the gas used that killed hundreds of Kurds was the non-persistent gas, the chemical weapon of choice of the Iranians. Note it was the Iranians who arrived at the scene first, who reported the incident to UN observers, and who took pictures of the gassed Kurdish civilians. However, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait in August and the truth of the Halabjah incident became inconvenient.

I asked professor Pelletiere in March 1991, when he thought their findings would come out. I recall him telling me that it would probably take about five years after emotions over the Gulf war crisis died down. However, the USAWC report of 1990 has been dispatched into oblivion. The propaganda that Iraq gassed its own Kurdish civilians is cons-tantly invoked by the media. It was reactivated by president Clinton in December 1998 to justify the further bombing and destruction of Iraq.

Meanwhile, estimates of the number of innocents who have died in Iraq from relentless American-dictated UN sanctions range between 1-1.7 million, including more than half-a-million children. An article in The New England Journal of Medicine, assessed through a study of monthly and annual infant mortality rates in Iraq that “more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. UNICEF official Thomas Ekfal estimates that about 500,000 children have died in Iraq since the United Nations Security Council imposed economic sanctions on Baghdad.

If the US bombs Iraq, it is not the direct loss of Iraqi lives from “collateral damage” alone that will be the only tragedy, but the unseen and accelerated loss of lives of tens of thousands of more infants, the sick and the elderly from lack of medicine and other healthcare. Before the US bullies all countries into supporting its bombing of Iraq, major countries such as France, Germany, Russia, China, India and Indonesia should stand up in unison and say “no more [bombs]” to the sole superpower.

The author is the Allis Chalmers distinguished professor of International Affairs at Marquette University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Copyright Raju Thomas, Times of India 2002, For fair use only

Nice article!;)

Rick

[Leaping known]

Got to smile when I see LK swoop in and drop us a Copy and Pasted message...
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas Holiday LK! Hows the Snow?


We got around three and a half to four feet of the white stuff. Almost as deep as the bull here, huh?

http://Jan005.smugmug.com/photos/119870064-M.jpg


There is VW under that lump, take a close look at the garage roof across the street...:eek:

[jet56]

.............glad to see you back L.K., don't guess you visited the High Country in the last few weeks?

[Leaping known]

Checked with our neighbors up there, they are snowed in, took the county three days to get back to their place. They have around 66"!!!!

[Oilguy]

We got around three and a half to four feet of the white stuff. Almost as deep as the bull here, huh?

http://Jan005.smugmug.com/photos/119870064-M.jpg


There is VW under that lump, take a close look at the garage roof across the street...:eek:

DUDE>>> My place looks just like that!!! Only its melted :p

LOL

[Administrator]

WMD's that we need to worry about are the ones that really do mass destruction like a nuke or anything that has potential of reaching the USA from the middle east..gas bombs are nothing though they still kill many..they aren't MASS destruction weaponery by ANY means.

Runamuk..lol man none of your posts tonight made any sense man..are you ok?:p

They absolutely ARE weapons of Mass Destruction, and yes, there were 300,000 killed. Where do you get your information?

[TireHauler04]

Whatever you think they are fine...still doesn't warrant what we are over there for.That country will forever be in turmoil and you know it.

[Oilguy]

Whatever you think they are fine...still doesn't warrant what we are over there for.That country will forever be in turmoil and you know it.

Hey Jack... That tireahulers way of saying "your right... I'm wrong"... :D